Are yellow lights too short?

"Leadbull" (leadbull911) 11/05/2013 at 16:02 • Filed to: rant? does this qualify as a rant? anyone?

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Occasionally, I feel it's actually safer to run a light than slam on the brakes (Note: I'm talking about the textbook definition of not making it all the way through an intersection before the light turns red. Not full on blowing a red light GTA style). Sometimes, it's because the conditions are bad, other times it's 'cause someone's tailgating me like a boss. Either way, it might be a good idea to lengthen the timing, which varies by intersection, speed limit, and jurisdiction. Apparently, some cities are shortening the timing on purpose in order to raise red light camera revenue, which is stupid and potentially dangerous. If I were king, each state would set it's own standardized times and individual jurisdictions would have to abide by that, no matter how much revenue they need to cover City Hall's landscaping costs.

...

Make me your king.

Elect me your leader.

ddavidn > Leadbull 11/05/2013 at 16:05

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I thought I had figured out that the timing is one second per 10mph on the speed limit sign. It's never been real far off...

(Example: 35mph road, 3.5s yellow)

Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura > Leadbull 11/05/2013 at 16:06

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There are some people who do listen to the yellow light - the only problem? It's the blokes on the adjacent road waiting to floor it. :/

Case in point:

If I can still see the light for the other road, that's a horrible signal installation.

Leadbull > ddavidn 11/05/2013 at 16:08

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Yeah, one second per ten mph is common.

ddavidn > Leadbull 11/05/2013 at 16:10

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Cool. Any shorter seems like a horrible idea.

Cajun Ginger > Leadbull 11/05/2013 at 16:11

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My city did some weird thing where green left turn arrows turn into blinking yellow turn arrows. You're still supposed to yield. They're seriously messing with my mind.

The Jevans > Leadbull 11/05/2013 at 16:12

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Only your god or god-like figure can elect kings.

Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura > Cajun Ginger 11/05/2013 at 16:12

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The idea for the yellow flasher is to tell you if the opposing street still has a green light just to prevent you from being T-boned.

It slightly works until you meet someone who TREATS IT LIKE A RED LIGHT.

desertdog5051 > Leadbull 11/05/2013 at 16:13

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Never paid much attention to the length of the yellow light.But thinking about it, I believe ddavidn is correct. Also, where I live all directions have a several second overlap where all lights are red.

Cajun Ginger > Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura 11/05/2013 at 16:15

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I was fine with the arrow turning into a round green light. Like who didn't realize that meant yield? MAYBE PEOPLE THAT SHOULDN'T BE DRIVING TO BEGIN WITH!

Leadbull > ddavidn 11/05/2013 at 16:15

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But it does happen.

Apparently, some camera-rigged lights will be like 3 seconds at 45mph.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Leadbull 11/05/2013 at 16:15

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Yes. And it is documented that they get programmed shorter on intersections with red light cameras, in an effort to generate more red light running tickets, to generate more revenue. If you go through a yellow that turns red before you are fully past the intersection the camera is likely to still get you.

When people realize that, they brake HARD for yellows, to avoid the chance of getting caught on red, that rear end accidents at camera-monitored intersections statistically increase, as well as other accidents resulting from drivers paying more attention to traffic camera implications than actual traffic conditions.

They may be programmed shorter in general, so that police officers have grounds to pull you over if they see it, also, for the same reason, plus an opportunity for them to try and get probable cause to search vehicles or other intrusive ways to make money from fines.

It becomes an issue as law enforcement becomes a tax collection enterprise.

" A fine is a tax for breaking the law; a tax is a fine for obeying the law." -J.H. Goldfuss

I went through a light the other day... I stood at a red light, I accelerated normally when it turned green, and before I was 3/4 across the intersection, the light turned yellow, and I saw the red just as the traffic light passed out of my peripheral vision.

I wasn't even the first person in the car to comment on how short that traffic cycle was.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 11/05/2013 at 16:17

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Came here to post precisely this. Watch your local jurisdictions, because yellow lights aren't a spot of honesty. Particularly with accident rates at the shortened yellows going up - worse red-light runs, and rear-endings from people who know they can't make the obscenely short yellow hauling up to a hard stop.

vdub_nut: scooter snob > Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura 11/05/2013 at 16:18

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I disagree. I use the perpendicular signals to know when to clutch up at lights. Even if I'm in an autotragic, I still pay attention, so I can GO on GREEN. I still make sure no one is flying through the light, but if you're still in the intersection by the time I get there, you're not "barely running the light". Even with zero dead time, and me waiting for the green, I bet it's at least a full 3 seconds between getting the green and making it into "cross traffic" (or where it would be).

Casper > Leadbull 11/05/2013 at 16:21

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There are no universal standard yellow light durations that isn't open to "interpretation". They vary light to light, location to location. Some places with red light cameras have actually been caught reducing the length to get more tickets.

Really, there should be a hard law that makes them always proportional to the speed zone + reactionary compensation, but that will never pass. It would give people who challenge cities a tool and they hate having to prove they did anything right.

Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura > vdub_nut: scooter snob 11/05/2013 at 16:21

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The idea to shift and clutch would work if it's a normal green ball with no lead-lag arrow lights at the intersection, not one of literal confusion such as this .

Edit: There's a Porsche 911 in that shot.

vdub_nut: scooter snob > Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura 11/05/2013 at 16:24

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That intersection should be condemned. Holy tits.

Looks kinda like this one, from near me.

https://maps.google.com/?ll=40.261598,…

Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura > vdub_nut: scooter snob 11/05/2013 at 16:25

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OH GOD NO

Leadbull > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 11/05/2013 at 16:29

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Super short green lights are just as bad, and it seems like they're ALWAYS at busy intersections in the city.

vdub_nut: scooter snob > Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura 11/05/2013 at 16:30

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There are perfectly legal, not-light-timing-related, traffic maneuvers at that intersection, where people will just crash into each other, or drive past each other on the opposite side you'd expect. I refuse to make turns at this intersection, I'll go up to Mushroom Hill road and double back if I need to get up to the neighborhood. There's also a WalMart nearby which has only two exits, one of which is that awful side road.

NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE.

revrseat70 > Leadbull 11/05/2013 at 16:36

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I disagree. I lived in a city where all the yellows were long, and people constantly put the pedal to the metal to get through them from way too far away. I've seen so many near misses and have almost been T-boned way too many times well after my light is green. I don't agree with the yellows that barely exist, but too long and it becomes a stupidly dangerous game for the selfish and uneducated.

davedave1111 > Leadbull 11/05/2013 at 16:39

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Unless you're speeding, you can either stop on yellow or clear the junction before the red phase. That's how traffic lights work. It's not a random interval.

Leadbull > The Jevans 11/05/2013 at 16:39

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OK.

The Mazda Miata has christened me king.

It's final.

The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 > Leadbull 11/05/2013 at 18:03

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Remember that episode of The Simpsons?

"We studied traffic patterns and found that drivers move the fastest through yellow lights, so now we just have the red and yellow lights, mm-haiai."